Help with KLyball D13

nama
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Location: New Zealand
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Help with KLyball D13

Post by nama »

I've finally finished my D13 and installed it in my C4. I believe I have set the timing the the correct 6us. and set the jumpers as follows:

FOR 5.25 FLOPPY J1-J2,J3-J4,J7-J8,J9-J10,J15-J16
which is what was recommended.

So I should be good to go...

However I seem to be having some issues. First I tried it with a more modern half height DSSD drive, and wasn't able to get it to do much and just got ERR#6 (Drive not ready), after some mucking around I found that If I added a jumper to J11-J12, then the drive would start to work.

J11 DISKCHANGE/READY FLOPPY
J12 READY DRIVE1/DRIVE2

Unfortunately I am not able to read any disk and my attempts to create a disks has failed. Strangely enough, when issuing a HO(me) command, the head with chatter, move randomly but not go back to track 0. Sometimes it actually moves forward!!! Reseting the C4 and pressing 'D' then 'homes' the head back to track 0 with no issues.

So next I tried plugging in my old MPI drive (with separator removed), everything is exactly as above, but now the HO(me) command works and takes the head back to track 0.

Trying to create a disk with the MPI drive gives me ERROR#9 which is the same error I was getting before building the D13 and was the reason why I built KLyball's separator.

As the HO(me) command doesn't seem to work on the new half height drive it's difficult to see how I can attempt to create a disk.

I guess my first issue is to figure out why the recommended jumper settings don't work.
Then, why homing the heads don't work on the new half height drive.

Any help would be most appreciated.

Philip

2P (1mhz 32k) - 502 + 8k + CEGMON + garbage collector fix BASIC, D&N MEM-CM9 + 24k, 540 (mono) [SOLD]
4PMF (2mhz 24k) - 505, 540, 527, D13 + 5.25" + Gotek
Superboard RevD - CEGMON + 610 board 24k + D13
Spares - 3 x 527, 1 x 505, Backplane
nama
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am
Location: New Zealand
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Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by nama »

Ok, some progress.
I spent a good part of the afternoon trying out various drives (I have quite a few (10?) in various states). I was able to find 2 drives that seemed to work with the original jumper settings (no need for J11 and 12). Surprisingly, many known good drives didn't seem to work!. with the two drives was able to boot many of my disks (but not all...to be expected I guess) that I had previously made on the MPI drive. Things seemed to be looking very promising.

I then booted of disk 5 and used the copy program to copy it to another floppy. The process seemed to go super smooth, no errors or anything. But when I tried to boot from the copied disk, it would spend some time loading, lots of head movement, but then then crash out to basic with an ERR#9...I was able to 'EXIT' from basic and jump into DOS, so much seems to have loaded. I tried it with about 4 different floppies, each time having the same result.

Then I tried it with the the second drive that worked, and it did exactly the same thing. ERR#9. but again seems to have mostly loaded the contents of the disk.

So although I made much progress, I'm still scratching my head as to what's going on.

Cheers

Philip

2P (1mhz 32k) - 502 + 8k + CEGMON + garbage collector fix BASIC, D&N MEM-CM9 + 24k, 540 (mono) [SOLD]
4PMF (2mhz 24k) - 505, 540, 527, D13 + 5.25" + Gotek
Superboard RevD - CEGMON + 610 board 24k + D13
Spares - 3 x 527, 1 x 505, Backplane
Klyball
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by Klyball »

I sent you a email but go through this as well

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220
Replica 600 Rev D:8K,CEGMON
Replica 610 Rev B: 24k,MPI B-51 with Custom Data separator D-13
510 on the bench/replica 582 backplane/replica 470a /replica 555/original 570B/2 x Shugart 851
Ongoing : 630 ,620 ,510,542c,custom 590,SA1200,592,594,596,598
MK14HAK
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by MK14HAK »

"Unfortunately I am not able to read any disk and my attempts to create a disks has failed. Strangely enough, when issuing a HO(me) command, the head with chatter, move randomly but not go back to track 0. Sometimes it actually moves forward!!! Reseting the C4 and pressing 'D' then 'homes' the head back to track 0 with no issues."

Likely floppy PIA not initialized prior to HO.

0240 A000 LDY #$00 ;INFDC
0242 8C01C0 STY $C001
0245 8C00C0 STY $C000
0248 A204 LDX #$04
024A 8E01C0 STX $C001
024D 8C03C0 STY $C003
0250 88 DEY
0251 8C02C0 STY $C002
0254 8E03C0 STX $C003
0257 8C02C0 STY $C002
025A CA DEX
025B 8E10C0 STX $C010
025E A958 LDA #$58
0260 8D10C0 STA $C010
0263 4C512A JMP $2A51
;call with A*GO 0240

ERR#9 Media or step rate ? Change one thing at a time and take notes otherwise it gets very confusing. DI command is handy to find tks sectors not reading ok. What model # of those two 'good' drives ?
Mike
600RevB:16K,2MHz,64x32,470,CEGMON
SuperKit:502,540B,542B,CEGMON, 8" and 5" FDDs
Cards:PE IO,6522 D-A-D, AY3-8910,ProgramGraphics,Color,UK101
WIP:HexDOS,FDD Emulator
nama
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by nama »

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I'm presently testing with a Mitsubishi MF 501A-312U drive.

Mike, thanks for your insights.
After a bit of playing around I realise that the HO(me) chattering head only seems to happen with your AutoDC file (I'll let Mike explain what this is in due time). I think part of my initial problem was a bad floppy cable, and after replacing it with a good one I was able to boot with an OSI DOS disk. HO(me) works fine from the OSI disk, but I still get the chatter with AutoDC. Knowing you, I'm guessing you already know what the issue could be???

Grant, thanks for your email. You now have me wondering about my ground connection. As my machine is a US model being used in NZ via a stepdown transformer, I don’t actually have the GND line from the mains connected. Sometimes I’ve even feel an electric buzz through the C4’s chassis…I’m going to look into this, as you suggested, as it may be the cause of many of my issues.

Will update soon.

Cheers

Phil

2P (1mhz 32k) - 502 + 8k + CEGMON + garbage collector fix BASIC, D&N MEM-CM9 + 24k, 540 (mono) [SOLD]
4PMF (2mhz 24k) - 505, 540, 527, D13 + 5.25" + Gotek
Superboard RevD - CEGMON + 610 board 24k + D13
Spares - 3 x 527, 1 x 505, Backplane
MK14HAK
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by MK14HAK »

Geez I hope youre wearing rubber gumboots. :shock: Time for an Ebay switch mode PSU ?
600RevB:16K,2MHz,64x32,470,CEGMON
SuperKit:502,540B,542B,CEGMON, 8" and 5" FDDs
Cards:PE IO,6522 D-A-D, AY3-8910,ProgramGraphics,Color,UK101
WIP:HexDOS,FDD Emulator
dave
Site Admin
Posts: 710
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 am

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by dave »

nama wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:58 am Grant, thanks for your email. You now have me wondering about my ground connection. As my machine is a US model being used in NZ via a stepdown transformer, I don’t actually have the GND line from the mains connected. Sometimes I’ve even feel an electric buzz through the C4’s chassis…I’m going to look into this, as you suggested, as it may be the cause of many of my issues.
Nice work!

As long as all the boxes are powered from the same isolation transformer, you are OK (preferred configuration. If you have a separate isolation transformer for each box, then you will want to connect the isolated grounds to form a common "earth". As Mike suggested, you may want to consider using switchers.

The OSI method of separately powering the boxes and then using a signal ground path between the boxes is not a great design, but unfortunately was pretty common at the time.
nama
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am
Location: New Zealand
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Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by nama »

Yes, All my old electronics are behind a single large isolation transformer, I was careful to get that part right.
As I came to NZ From Japan, most of my hardware (power strips etc) are Japanese. These don't have a ground pin.
My step down transformer purchased in NZ, doesn't have a ground pin on the output side either.

One question. Can I gather the isolated grounds from the C4 and connect them to the copper pipe at the back of the house...or do I have to feed them to the ground line from the mains? If the latter, is it ok for the C4 to be behind an isolation transformer, then a step down transformer, but the grounds connected to the house's mains?

Philip

2P (1mhz 32k) - 502 + 8k + CEGMON + garbage collector fix BASIC, D&N MEM-CM9 + 24k, 540 (mono) [SOLD]
4PMF (2mhz 24k) - 505, 540, 527, D13 + 5.25" + Gotek
Superboard RevD - CEGMON + 610 board 24k + D13
Spares - 3 x 527, 1 x 505, Backplane
dave
Site Admin
Posts: 710
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:24 am

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by dave »

You shouldn't earth anything on the output side of an isolation transformer. That negates the safety of the isolation. The point of the isolation, especially when repairing equipment, is that you can poke around the device without worrying about accidentally conducting to earth through you, if you accidentally lean against a pipe, etc.

You can generally safely connect the grounds on the output side to each other, though.
Klyball
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Help with KLyball D13

Post by Klyball »

Don't connect to the ac ground but make sure the DC ground is going to all devices it can deffinetly cause disk problems if the DC ground is not good
the d13 takes its power and ground from the connector but that connector is jumperable make sure the +5 and ground are on the right pins the 610 does not even have the +5 on the connector
Replica 600 Rev D:8K,CEGMON
Replica 610 Rev B: 24k,MPI B-51 with Custom Data separator D-13
510 on the bench/replica 582 backplane/replica 470a /replica 555/original 570B/2 x Shugart 851
Ongoing : 630 ,620 ,510,542c,custom 590,SA1200,592,594,596,598
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